In this episode, Fredrik Fjellstedt, a Master Enabler at Business Through People, looks at the everyday challenges of businesses trying to implement Hoshin Kanri and Lean.
Detailing out how the 4Cs of Hoshin Kanri - Clarity, Courage, Commitment, and Consensus, translate to meaningful breakthrough results in different organizations. Fredrik shines a new light on why businesses struggle to get their strategy off the ground. With just a change of mindset, Fredrik proves that Hoshin doesn't have to be difficult.
[James] Hi, and welcome to today's episode of the Strategy Hero Podcast, the podcast that's all about diving into the world of business strategy, transformation, and operational excellence, featuring insights and experiences from some of the most successful leaders in the field. Today, I have a very special guest, Fredrik Fjelstedt, who is our strategy hero for this episode. Fredrik is a partner and master enabler at the consulting firm Business Through People. Fredrik, it's lovely to see you.
[Fredrik] Thank you. Thank you for having me. I'm happy to be here.
[James] It's lovely to have you. So, Fredrik, could you just quickly tell our listeners a little bit about yourself, I know I've personally read one of your books, and I'm following you on LinkedIn, and I've spoken to you for quite a while now.
But although you do a lot of interesting work, there are going to be some of our listeners who perhaps haven't heard of you, and you have a fascinating background.
Could you just tell our listeners a little bit about yourself and then we can dive into the subject for today?
[Fredrik] Yeah, certainly. So, my background started, my professional background started at Toyota. So right after university studies, I joined back then it was a Swedish company called BT, who manufactured warehouse trucks. And at the same time, I joined Toyota. Had acquired them a few years earlier and started up their lean journey. So they kind of started that transformation journey of going from a traditional Swedish manufacturing company into what we would call today, kind of a lean company. But of course that would be more of a Toyota company.
So I worked there for 10 years, kind of was part of that journey, which was absolutely, absolutely a fantastic journey. You learn so much, right? There's a reason why we want to understand what is doing and kind of how can we try to learn from that. So I worked there for 10 years with leadership development. I worked there with problem-solving but also Hoshin Kanri, which kinda led me into also what we'll talk about here today. That policy deployment or the strategic part of the lean thinking kind, the lead management part of it. So now I was part of introducing Hoshin Kanri to the European organization. We were around 10,000 employees at that time.
So I worked a lot with training material, leadership development, and kind of building those capabilities inside the company. And from there, I started up my own independent consultancy firm for a couple of years. And three, four years ago I joined Business Through People. And I took my business into that. And today I'm a master enabler and partner in the company. And there, we enable organization and leadership teams in Hoshin Kanri among other things.
That's been an interesting journey up to now. And I also wrote that book you mentioned implementing Hoshin Kanri with some people here in Sweden.
[James] Thank you. Like I said, there are a lot of things about your career path that I think our audience will love to hear more about. And even the book itself that you mentioned is a fantastic read, and obviously, we'll share information about it after this episode. But out of all of those topics, I think the one thing that's for our conversation today that I really found interesting and would love you to expand more upon, is the 4 C's of leadership.
I would love you to just take people through the journey of what those 4 C's are, and I would say really give people some reassurance that yes, there is a challenge, and I guess in any market there's always going to be challenges, but now probably more than ever, in 2023, it's significantly harder than ever before to really be successful with delivering on your strategy and executing your strategic plans and really delivering operational results. So I just want to just jump into the topic, and more than ever really address the fact that we have these distractions and we're consistently faced with a changing market condition. And there's something about, I believe 61% of businesses find there's a gap between their plans and their ability to actually execute those projects, which really help you to achieve those goals.
But what's more interesting to me is that the average employment length right now in the US for example, in particular is, it's about four years. So you've got this almost perfect storm of challenging conditions. The gap between plans and delivering on those plans is growing, and the tenure of the people in the organizations that are responsible for delivering on those plans isn't significantly long. In fact, if we go for a three to five-year traditional cycle of strategy, that's not even the full cycle that people are staying in post. So here's my question for you. Is there a way that you can plot a different direction? And if so, what is that path?
[Fredrik] Leading another question, right? But I believe that there is a way absolutely. And I mean, like I said, Hoshin Kanri is kinda my take on what I believe can build good capabilities in an organization to actually deliver on those strategic choices that we have made. And I mean, Hoshin kinda started to be present already kind of 40, 50 years ago. So, in a sense, they are new, they're not kind of new thinking, but like you said, already then it was kind a dynamic condition, dynamic world we lived in. And that has kind of just accelerated.
So I think the more dynamic conditions we have, the more important it's to build the right capabilities so we can kind of manage that. And traditionally, especially when I come to strategy and strategic planning, it tends to be quite rigid. I have done some, I've been teaching at university also kind of on the side for the last couple of years in strategic management. And I'm still fascinated that even today modern strategic textbooks are, of course, they're updated, but they tend to kinda focus a lot on the planning phase, doing the right plan. If we have had the right plan, we are good to go, right?
That is, of course, important, but how do we build leadership capabilities that can also not only try to think out what a good plan is but also identify, so what problems do we need to solve? And once we have, you know, identified those, how do we then start to, to kind of deal with those problems step by step and what learning approach can we have to that? And that's when we come more to the execution phase of it. And there, I still see, most leaders I meet are struggling with that. From leadership teams all the way down to first-line managers, right?
I mean, it's tough because we are trying to think about the future that has not happened, and no one knows what will happen. And that's why it's so important. We have what I believe is a different approach to how to take on these strategic challenges, which is much more learning and do something, learn from it, and kinda make these small adjustments. And building that capability, I think, is where we should spend more time and focus on and not only teach leaders how to make really good plans.
[James] Yeah, absolutely. I believe that the PDCA loop that you're talking about, and in fact, the overarching principles that you talk to, they're not just necessarily at the, you know, the C-suite level.
They're all the way down to the first line of managers and to the shop floor. And I'm reading your book and talking through the concepts that you're going to cover today for everyone. It's something that I actually like to use within my own department.
And from what I understand, if you're at a manufacturing side, if you work in a corporate office, or even if you're in a services vertical, for example, these are basic principles that if you follow them, they can give you the foundations for success. And I think we're in for a pleasant treat from yourself today, Fredrik, over the course of this episode.
[Fredrik] Exactly. So when I meet leaders, and I talk about policy employment or Hoshin Kanri, which is kind of the same name on the same thing, right? I open with a slide or kind of mentioned that, kind of a quote, saying it took the leadership team 30 days to develop the strategy. It took the organization 30 seconds to misunderstand it. And then, I mean, you're smiling, and that's always the reaction I get. I can do that in the room of 150 leaders, and it'll always create some kind of people laughing and nodding kind in recognition, right?
Because there's so much truth in that, you know, it's a bit black or white, but people recognize themselves in that, that we get these strategic directions in an email or in a town hall meeting. And many times what we see is that especially middle managers trying to figure out, so, hmm, what is my part in this? And then they start to get questions from the organization, so what does this mean? And should we prioritize in a different way? And many, many times, this is what I have seen with my own eyes that leaders don't, they don't feel connected to that strategy. And if they don't feel connected, they tend to, many times, put it aside and say, that's not for us.
So let's continue with whatever we have been doing in the past, right? But already there you kinda, you have lost half of the battle of making these strategic achievements. So there is so much gain in finding a different way to involve the whole organization, not only by communication but actually by involvement in problem-solving and having each lead on each level to think about.
So if I'm going to contribute to whatever senior management team has decided, what should I do in my part of the organization? And that's kinda, for me, is the basis of those 4 C's you mentioned, and kinda how that can be more of a leadership guidance rather than a tool that we use. So that's more than a leadership view on how can we think differently and how we implement strategies basically.
[James] Yeah, absolutely. I believe a lot of our listeners have the tools they need. They have the X matrix, they have the bowling chart, they have the root cause analysis tools, they have their TTIs, they have everything they need. But what I think is missing, quite frankly, and I see a lot of this with our audience is, the question of, well, yeah, this is great, but what can I actually do? What can I actually do to win hearts and minds? Because that's what it all comes down to. You win someone's heart, then their minds, and then, you know, the rest of this in terms of execution should be relatively straightforward.
[Pascal Dennis] Yeah, I think the key is to understand something that Aristotle, the great philosopher, arguably the father of modern philosophy, something Aristotle said many years ago, he observed that there are two worlds, in fact. One world is that in which things cannot be otherwise.
In other words, the world of science, physics, I'm a chemical engineer of the Toyota production system of Lean. And in that world, things cannot be otherwise. If you define and implement a good value stream, a good process, and you understand your bottlenecks, you elevate the bottlenecks, you reduce waste, delay, etcetera, throughput will improve. Lead time will decrease. It'll happen every time.
That's the nature of that world. It's predictable. But there is another world Aristotle tells us, and that is the world of things that can be otherwise. And that's the world of taste, of public opinion, of psychology, of politics, for example. And in that world, things can be otherwise. For example, a customer can say in a focus group, oh, yes, I really like that. I would definitely buy that. And then they don't buy it. That's very, very common. This other world, in fact, is volatile. It's uncertain, it's complex, and it's ambiguous. And the skills that we learned in the first world do not necessarily apply.
As I suggested earlier, they do lay a nice foundation, they'll protect our core business. But if you want to excel in the second world, you have to develop different skills and a different mindset. And I call this becoming ambidextrous. Much of my personal practice now is working with boards and senior teams, helping them understand ambidexterity, it's no longer enough to be good in the first world.
It's no longer enough to be good at Lean. If, for example, you are a supplier of combustion engines or parts for combustion engines, you could have the best changeover, the best production lines, the best supply chain in the world, and your future will still be bleak. So it is what it is. And, in a sense, we're victims of our own success. You know. But, on the other hand, it's a wonderful opportunity to grow and to learn something new.
[Fredrik] And that whole tools are great. I mean, you need the right tools also. So this is kinda, adding to that picture and that is also what happened in lean in general, that people started to learn about concrete tools. They started to learn. So what did Toyota or other successful lean companies do? Can we just copy that? And after, while they hit into the wall, I'm thinking, Hmm, that was not enough. And it's the same here. The X Matrix is a bowling chart. I mean, all of those are great tools, but looking at those 4 C's, which is the clarity, the courage, the commitment and consensus, and kind of add that layer to how do we need to act as leaders to utilize these tools, right? Because that's the main challenge.
So these 4 Cs is something I often, when I go out and work with leadership teams and organizations and they might use the X Matrix, they might do other things, right? I still start to talk about do we have the clarity? Do you know in the organization or in the leadership team, do they have the same view? Is it a clear direction you have? And sometimes, which is not very uncommon, we can almost start with a vision and mission statement to not to define many times that is existing, right? But do we see the same picture?
Because if we can't decode the vision and mission statement into kind of breakthroughs that then we need to think a bit more kind of how can this vision and mission become that guiding the two north that we're looking for, right? So many times you might have a dialogue with the management team, kind of what is your interpretation? And when you start to do this with senior leaders, in the beginning, they might feel kind of back to square one, right? But I mean, it's not unusual that I have spent one or two days with the management team just talking about an existing vision. And at the end of that, they come out and say, Hmm, now we have actually much more clarity. And just having that dialogue, help us to understand where we go next. What are the breakthroughs that we need to have, right? So part of the clarity is to get the management team on the same level. And if that would be clear, then of course we come to even more challenges, do we see the same priorities?
This is where we can start to break the silos, right? So what they do in production, what they do in sales, what they do in R&D, are we part of the same team? Or are we just running our own small little kingdoms here, hopefully that we do the right things? And that's also the clarity. What are those company directions, company priorities we need to have?
So we need to see that picture as a leadership team. And many times that's more engaging in that dialogue. Of course, we use data, and we might have swapped analysis or strategic analysis in other ways to help us to understand, right? But at the end of the day, it's the management team taking decisions, and then we need to see the same things, and then we need to have the clarity into the organization. So when we start to communicate that we communicate the same picture, but also create that clarity. So when I start to talk to my leadership team or my leaders, and I start to get a lot of questions, of course, I should be able to guide them in the same way that others are guiding.
So many times that clarity that we often think we have is put to the test quite soon. Quite often we might see that we start to build a different story depending on who is telling that. The more clarity we can on have on that, the better it'll be. So whatever we put in that X Matrix or in those bowling charts or those targets, right? Are viewed in the same way. So we stand behind that and when we have that clarity, we can help people actually care or commit also to those whatever goals and direction we're setting, right? So that's why for me, the clarity is so important. And, of course, there are techniques and so on how you do that, but many, many times just starting to talk about that with leaders is quite value-adding in itself. And then we can structure the work, of course, in different ways, but many times we make the assumption that we see the same thing. And many times senior leaders think we're senior leaders.
So of course, we see the same things, right? And it's good just to leave that dialogue and either confirm or adjust if we need to.
[James] Absolutely. I think that I've got a couple of examples that come straight to mind when you talk about clarity, Fredrik.
I mean, I've worked in organizations where we've had a mission and a vision, but you would get people around the room, and you say, okay, what do you interpret it as? What do you think that means? And they would take what it means in their minds, but it's more than likely inconsistent with what someone in sales thinks. Someone in product thinks. And like you say, one of the things I really love about Hoshin Kanri and the true north in particular, and I guess this feeds into clarity, is, you know, I now make sure that whenever I'm setting our strategy in terms of our marketing organization, we have a true north. And that true north feeds into the business' true north and so on and so forth. So sales has one and operations has one, and product has one. And it all really does feed back up into the organization's true north.
And I think that you are right when you have that clarity, you do care more, and you do make sure that the work that you create and complete feeds back into that true north and that the purpose of the business is to move towards that true north. And if you're not providing value towards that destination, you're just spinning your wheels. You're just doing work for the sake of it.
[Fredrik] Yep. And I mean, out of that, you'll also start to think about that. So what are those breakthroughs? So what are those major shifts in the organization, in our capabilities that we need to do in the coming years, right? How many can we do? What are the players? And the more clarity we have, this is my personal belief, the easier it'll be. Not easy, but the easier, or it'll be for the management team to actually take some good decisions. Because that's another thing, I don't know how many times I have met leadership teams where the strategic, either if it breakthroughs or strategic targets or it's kinda a wishlist because everyone had a few things on that list. And how do we create kinda commitment in the organization? What is really the important, right?
And how can we, as a management team, guide the organization in the execution phase when we start to run into our obstacles that we would run into and things are being escalated, and we might need to prioritize in a different way than we did in the planning phase. And if we don't have the clarity, it'll be more difficult to prioritize. Because then, all of a sudden, we have so many things we want to do. So that's why the character is also important to kinda see.
So where do we go from as a management team? What are our top priorities? How do we shift the organization to the next level? How do we make that step change? And here you might only have three or five or three to five of those breakthroughs, right? And that not always easy to narrow down the list to just a couple of two. So the clarity kind of, from having a great clarity or better clarity, all those conversations will go easier. You might still have tough decisions to take, you might still have kinda, going back and forth way and decide different options, right? But I think it'll be easier and you'll build the capability in the organization to take decisions on those basis rather than just go with the flow or hope for the best, right?
So, that's also why clarity is so important to spend time and focus on.
[James] So how does that work in terms of then I guess giving the people the courage to go out and take that clarity and make those right decisions? How does that work in your mind?
[Fredrik] Exactly. So, courage is kinda the second C I talk, and there are kinda no specific order in that sense. But if we talk about those breakthroughs and if we talk about what Hoshin is all about, is to challenge the organization to break a status quo. So if we are going to make a step change, we probably need to change our way of thinking. We need to change our way of doing things. Because what we have done in the past have led us here. And then we need to have courage, right? So if we ask the organization to take a leap of faith in the sense, of course, first as a management team, we need to have the courage to challenge ourselves and the organization saying, let's push ourselves a bit more. And that's always a bit scary because you are putting your chin out, right?
You make it more vulnerable for kind of failure. I don't call it's not a failure to me, but that's how many seeds that if we say that let's push ourselves to make a 20%, 30% performance improvement here, and we only get 16, is that a failure? Because we did not reach the target. So it might be better than that. We just say 12 because then we are sure we'll meet the target and perhaps a bit more. So that takes a lot of courage. And working with Hoshin, it's very much about having that courage as a management team to lead the organization in that direction. But then you also need to have the privilege to trust people, right? Because if we talk about engaging people in more problem solving is to say, based on our clarity, based on our direction, we kinda trust in you to find your problems that you need to solve. So we need to have the courage to trust the organization because this is not the top-down process. This is not the top-down approach only. Top-down is the direction, what is involving the organization to identify what problems need to be fixed, right? And that's why we do the catch ball.
Catch ball is meant, I mean, it's building clarity. It kind of builds that courage to push the organization, to listen, to see kind of, they are actually finding some good things here. So the courage part is so important to break that status quo. Because if you are not breaking the status quo, or like we said, if you already know how you want to solve or accomplish a breakthrough, it's probably not the breakthrough you're looking for. Because you already have the answer.
A breakthrough is where you don't know how to accomplish that. And everyone who has been working in a leadership position knows that's quite scary. And, as a leader, and that's also coming to the third sea, kinda that commitment is that as a leader, no matter what level I am, so let's say I start on top level, when I engage in the dialogue with the next level, instead of just saying, these are the targets for next year, make sure you fulfill them. Because this is what we have decided, right? And if you're not fulfilling them, we'll not be very happy with you. For me, that's not building commitment, That's kind of asking the leaders of an organization to kinda just make sure the numbers look right. Because of that then organization will be happy. I would rather have that title of leader saying, these are my commitments for next year. This is what I have committed with my management team members or with my boss, right?
So how can you help me achieve my objectives? So I invite the organization to say, please help me.
You need to figure out what problems should you solve so I can be successful and you can be successful. And that's a completely different dialogue than implementing targets saying sell more, right? So, for me, that's also leadership capability that, kind of looping back to what you said in the beginning, that James said, many have the right tools and good tools, right? Probably not always finding the kinda full potential of those tools because we, as leaders, don't engage in the right conversations. We don't invite organizations in the right way. We don't challenge in the right way. And that's what I believe also creates a commitment that you make the top priorities of the organization important and a priority for also a first-line manager or a department manager, right? And we have a good dialogue around it and we don't just plan, leave it and come back to it 6 months, 10, 12 months and see what happens.
We do this continuously. I always say you follow up at least once a month and when you say it, people will say, but that's kind of basic Business 101, right? But once again, I'm surprised how many times we are not following up. Either we are missing to follow up or we have the wrong conversation when we follow up. So we don't turn the PDCA cycle.
Then we're missing so much of what Hoshin and the potential that's all about.
[James] I believe there's a stat out there from Gartner that says something like, only 6% of the C-suite check in on their strategic plans on a monthly basis. Which is mind-boggling, frankly.
[Fredrik] I totally agree. And quite often what happens then instead? So we plan year one and many times that cycle is sometimes 10, 12 months with different interactions, right? And then we have the plan and then we start to execute plan year two. And what you said quite often leaders kinda drop the ball there, don't follow up each week and don't have the right conversation when they follow up. And that instead they start year two planning. So once again, it's a bit black or white. But now that's a picture.
I often see that the companies are almost down from planning to planning phase and hope that something good is happening in between. And with Hoshin, you kind of balance that in a better way. You do the planning phase, then you spend a lot of time and energy on the follow-up, right? Having those PDCA conversations.
And that's really where you, if you start to build that capability in the organization, you will also see much more improvement in actually reaching those strategic objectives. That's my experience, and that's working what Toyota is doing great.
[James] No, I completely agree again. That's something that I do. All my teams follow PDCA in terms of, you know, the ways of working and part of my role has always been to look at strategy and look at scenarios. And I joke about it with team members, but I probably spend a quarter of my week doing scenario planning, which is, it's just the reality I believe of making sure that you're either following the right direction or that you are considering other directions that ultimately will always lead you back to that true north of what you are trying to achieve.
[Fredrik] And there is something, and that would also come to my consent, this is so important because there is something in the PDCA where we say what will happen in the future. We don't know. Because it's kinda through our knowledge threshold. So if we plan for next year, we might have some good ideas about what might happen, but we don't know because we are not there yet, right? And most of the strategic planning is happening beyond our knowledge threshold in what we call kind of the grey zone. And if it's in the grey zone, the only way to achieve our target is to do the PCDA.
To plan something, do that and see what happens. And we do that step by step month by month, week by week sometimes, right? And if we start to learn that what we thought would be a good idea to increase sales was not at all what we thought it would be. So, our plan was based on kinda a hypothesis saying this would help us to reach those sales targets. But already in February, we learned something. So then we changed the plan, right? And this is why I think, the more we invest in a good strategic plan, the harder it'll be to go kinda leave that plan. And if the management team signs off on that strategic plan saying this is what you have committed, and then starts to ask to deliver on that plan, no matter what we have learned or not, then we have a problem.
So when I work with Hoshin, I always say, what you should be very, very firm on is where you need to be at the end of the year. The targets are based on how they will lead you to the breakthroughs, those should not change. Most likely because those are based on need. And then you use the whole year to turn the PDCA to understand how do we reach those targets. So as a management team, always keep an eye on the targets and help the organization to overcome whatever obstacle they would need throughout the year in the implementation. And that's where you use the PDCA. And for me once again, based on my experience, this is where I see many leaders struggling. Because even though it sounds logical, you might feel many times of this is how I do it.
I still see organizational leaders struggle with doing it in a different way, not really learning and changing. And that's the capability we need to build. And that kinda leads me to the last C, which is consensus. So the consensus, of course, is something we want to have at the end of the planning process. Kinda let's shake hands. We agree on these are the targets, right? And many times, consensus will come from the catch process. Going back and forth saying, this is what we want to achieve, what do you think? And then coming from the organization saying, these are the problems we think we need to solve, what do you think? These are the targets, what do you think? And you throw that ball a number of times, and at the end, you will have a handshake saying, okay, these are our priorities, these are our targets, let's go. And you can't have consensus if you don't have that clarity. And with consensus, you'll get the commitment. And hopefully, through that catch pull and consensus building, you have also built that courage of trusting the organization and challenge the organization. And many times you will learn quickly if this was through consensus or not. Because then, you start execution and let's say in February, March, if you had that fiscal year, January to December, you start to run into the obstacles, things that you didn't expect start to happen. And then the management team will be challenged to say, is this still our priority? Yes or no? And if they start to, ah, but this ah, they're not that important because the other things also that are important, then that's the learning to next year.
So we didn't really have a consensus, right? Because there were some other things also floating around. And that's, for me, the learning journey that management and organizations are when they do washing kind of, so next year, how can we make sure we have true consensus? So those four Cs kind of, they are not, it's not a toolbox, it's not a process step by step approach. But when I'm working with leaders, I always use those four Cs to kind of build that mindset and giving them the right capabilities to execute the four Cs. And many times it's to connect, Oh, we're using X Matrix. Good. So when you have the clarity, just fill it out, right? Or you have a bowling chart. Great. So if you have a consensus, then we know what should be there. Then we have our follow-up plan and we can start to turn the PDCA, right? But for me, my experience is that those tools will always be kinda as good as you have those four Cs. I would say.
So that's kinda why I always like to frame that when we talk about Hoshin or positive policy employment instead of just jumping into concretely kinda step by steps on how to do it or how to fill out a certain tool.
[James] Yeah, absolutely. I think you hear a lot about the seven steps with, for example, you know, if you're a marketer you hear all about the soft stack planning model. But I think what Fredrik has shared with us today is it's obviously just an overview and we can probably keep talking for hours and hours, but my producer is telling me to hurry up.
But what I really love about what you shared today, Fredrik, is that this is stuff that you can actually implement and that's why we consider you one of our strategy heroes. It's not just theory, it's based on what I would imagine is hundreds and hundreds of hours of consulting and actually doing the doing with some big, some small and some medium-sized businesses across multiple verticals and continents from the sounds of it. And I think what I wanted to do today, again, was just to share with people this different approach, the four Cs, which I think has done a great job explaining the challenges that you face in leading in an organization.
But as well as that really it's just to never her know that if this is something that resonates, if this is something that you think, yeah, we absolutely are missing the, you know, the commitment elements and therefore the consensus, it's very difficult to achieve. You can head over on to the Business Through People's website, which is btp.dk btp.dk and you can learn more about Fredrik and his colleagues and the services that they can potentially offer to you.
But is there anything else that you would want to share before we wrap up today, Fredrik?
[Fredrik] Yeah, so also I have a webinar on YouTube. So if you search for Hoshin Kanri, that will come up a few, few things in the list and there you'll find a webinar that I did two years ago where I kinda talk about the four Cs and kind of go through that a bit more in detail and also kind of what you can do with more practically. So that could also be, it's around 45 minutes and it's kind of free, so that might be giving you some further inspiration or kinda to improve your own work. So that could also be a good way to learn more about this.
[James] Lovely, thank you. And in terms of your book Implementing Hoshin Kanri, how to manage strategies through Policy Deployment and Continuous Improvement, where can our listeners find a copy of what is quite frankly an amazing book? I'm taking lots from it. And where can our listeners find that?
[Fredrik] They can find it either on Amazon, I know, or directly on, it's from Productivity Press. Oh, sorry. So you can find it on Amazon would probably be the easiest way because I would imagine most, most are familiar to Amazon and find their way around that.
[James] Absolutely. So thank you so much for joining us for this episode and being our strategy hero for the day.
[Fredrik] Like I said, I could probably go on for another two hours.
[James] If there's anything you want to hear from him, more around the four Cs or potentially more of his experiences in terms of consulting or just as you as we said BTP services, please feel free to reach out to Fredrik on the BTP website or you can get in touch with us at firstname.lastname@example.org. So again, thank you Fredrik for sharing your time with us today. It's been a pleasure talking to our strategy hero, Fredrik Fjelstedt, and we look forward to having you on the podcast again, hopefully in the future.
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About Strategy Hero
Published on the last Thursday of every month, the Strategy Hero podcast delves into the world of business strategy and transformation.
Each cast shines a spotlight on a Strategy Hero – inspirers, boundary pushers, and leaders of change from all walks of life – armed with practical advice on achieving your goals.
Episodes explore topics around operational excellence, Lean management, process improvement, change management, and much, much more. Available where all great podcasts live, listen on-demand today, and discover the Strategy Hero inside you.
About the host
James Milsom is Head of Marketing at i-nexus, but James is a storyteller. He’s the UK’s biggest Georgia Bulldogs fan (go Dawgs!) and lives and breathes marketing.
The Strategy Hero podcast is his opportunity to bring some of his conversations with mentors, inspirers, and people anew to you every month.
He’s behind the content read and watched by people like you and lives to educate and help others.
If you’d like to learn more about him, connect with him on LinkedIn and subscribe to the Strategy Hero podcast today!